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| I always find older pornography more interesting. Everything now is so over-lit and you see too much, every little pimple and it's just not so interesting to me at all | |
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Why was it such a nightmare to get any kind of distribution for Ken Park?
Because it's explicit. People are afraid of it. In the US, Palm Pictures was going to do it then they backed out at the last minute. They made a deal with us, they wined and dined me and Chris Blackwell of Palm Pictures, Chris Blackwell from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, they backed out because they were afraid that they would be attacked by the Government. Everybody's afraid of Ashcroft and the Bush administration, because they're so nuts. If it went to court we would win, but it would cost like eight hundred thousand, a million dollars, whatever it would cost you to defend it.
But the publicity that it would get off it would more than compenasate.
Well, yeah. Who knows? Anyway it's going to come out, it's out in Europe and it's out all over the world. It's out in France. The first seven weeks in France it made a million four Euro's on very few screens, 21 screens total. So it's a blockbuster in France, this little tiny movie. It's played in Greece and Spain, Italy, Russia, Austria. It opens in Germany in a month or so. It opens in Japan in a couple of weeks. It's playing in South Africa now. All over the world. It's playing, and I've never cut a frame, it's never been cut. I won't ever cut it. I won't cut a goddamn frame.
Do you ever plan on anyone else releasing it in England?
They're working on that. They do have some people that want to do it, yeah. But the whole thing in England is that you have to get a certificate. There's a government censorship board and you have to have a certificate. And I guess it depends on how they're feeling that day. Just like anything, you know?
What happened with the one that you had to distribute it?
He decided he wouldn't distribute it.
I heard you handed him his teeth.
Well, something happened. I just want to get the fuck past that. It's public record, I decided not to talk about it anymore.
I don't read any of the public records. I'm sorry.
Let's just say somebody was trying to provoke me and they did. No. Let's say someone was trying to be provocative and they were.
It was in regards to the September 11th, right?
Yeah. But, you know there's some stupid stuff in Europe being said about America and about September 11th and suicide bombers. And it's a lot of anti-Semitism.
What's the worst experience you've come across trying to get somebody to give you what you need as far as financing?
It's always difficult. It's always hard. I just keep punching my way through. Strike that. I just won't give up. But they're all hard. People think that the reason I've been successful is they just give you money, but they don't because they're all different. If you make the same movie over and over again, they give you money. After I made KIDS I must have got 50 screenplays that were like bad KIDS movies. And then I made Bully and I got all these screenplays about kids who kill. They want to do the same thing. I went over here and since everything's always different, it's difficult to get the money. They never know what I'm going to do or what's going to happen. Plus, I have final cut in all my movies which is not what happens with most filmmakers. If you make studio films, you don't have final cut and so you make your movie and then they can change the movie any way they want to. They show the test audiences and if audiences don't like the ending they just change the ending. They completely change the movie or they just do what they want to do. I don't come from that world I come from the art world where it's not going to happen like that.
You ever get to the point making films that you just want to put a bullet in your head?
Well sure, yeah it's really tough. I mean everything means just as much in this and I'm just as committed. But, I'm trying to calm down a little bit, you know?
What's the worst thing you've been approached with to write or direct?
Oh god, there's a lot. There's been so many. I turned down Bad Santa. I didn't get it. I read Bad Santa; I said, "What is this?" It's the stupidest thing I ever read in my life." I haven't seen it but apparently it kind of make sense that it's kind of a hit because it's subversive. And everything about Christmas is so Christmas, that I'm sure a lot of people are happy to have something that's subversive about Christmas. I've passed on a lot of stuff. After I made KIDS I turned down a lot of money to do American History X. Didn't want to do that. That would have been a sell out, you know? Studio movie, wouldn't give you final cut. So I think it's selling out. They give a bunch of money. A lot of money. I had to walk around the block a couple times, but I just wouldn't do it.
Do you ever feel like you just want to leave the United States and do what you want to do?
I could make a film anywhere, but I like it here, you know. This is my country and I'm making American films. I'm making a social comment.
But in a situation like right now, your home is the last place to pick up your film. Your movie is everywhere else making tons of money-
Well we'll change that, you know. We'll get it out here. I won't give up. We'll get it out here. Fighting the good fight, you know, we'll get it out. I mean, I mean the thing that people under estimate the audiences. Everybody does, the people with the money, they underestimate the audiences. I've always said it "If people see the film, they're going to react." It's the same thing everywhere after the film was made we were told that this film would never be distributed. It wouldn't be distributed in France, it wouldn't be distributed anywhere. No one would see this film. It would be on the shelf. I'd get to show it at a couple of museums, but it wouldn't be seen. And I said "If we can get this film in front of an audience, I'll prove you wrong."
So we showed it in Venice and they sold the film all over the world because the audiences get it. They react to the film. They thought it was far too tough for audiences to see, and it's just not true, because the audience is being fed the same bullshit over and over again and people want to see good film. They want to see films that challenge them, they want to see films about things that happen in life, that happen to a lot of people and that everybody knows about, you just don't see them in films often.
These are the kind of stories that just aren't told very often. There's all kinds of ingratiating stories and nice films being made. I don't have to make those. I feel a need to tell these stories. I'm a storyteller and these are the stories that are true. They're all based on true stories, Ken Park is based on all true people - it's all real people. It's not made up. It's fictionalized.
Being an old man and working with all these young kids has got to be like the fountain of youth for you.
Yeah, yeah, I'm old but I started doing work about adolescence when I was an adolescent. When I was a teenager I was photographing my friends and I've always found that there's always something there. It's such an important part of our lives, it's kind of how we're formed and it kind of dictates what we're going to be like as adults generally, the way that we're raised is the way that we're raised. So I've done a lot of work about that period of our lives. People like it. I seem to do it well; I mean a lot of people like my films. I do have a pretty good-sized audience that's getting bigger.
Here's what I want to know. You're an older guy. You tend to dig younger girls, right?
I've had some girlfriends that were younger. One girlfriend that's younger.
What's the secret of being an old man and getting young girls?
I mean I'm not out there dating young girls. I have one girlfriend. For over four years now that's a lot younger than me. Just one girl. We met and fell in love. There's no secret. We just like each other. Before that, I was married., I have three kids. I have a son who's 20, I have a daughter who's 17 and, I have an older daughter, from the outlaw years I'd say who's about 29 who's going to have a child any moment.
But, being older, were you intimidated by her when you first met? Were you giddy with kid butterflies or did you just going blazing, walking right in there like "I'm an old man, I'm in charge here."
No. No. I don't really think of myself as an old man.
You're an old man.
Yeah, I'm older. I don't see myself as an old man but I'm mature.
I'm not saying you're shitting your pants, I'm just saying you're older than me.
But yeah, when we me we were both nervous I think. But it worked out.
Do you ever need to take the blue pill? I'm already taking it.
I didn't need to know that. Well, I've taken a lot of drugs in my life. I've taken a lot of drugs.
That one's probably the funnest.
They're coming up with new ones that sound interesting. It lasts 36 hours or something.
What the fuck are you going to do with that?
I don't know.
Eight hours is already a nightmare.
Well I guess that's a concern.
That's bound to give people heart attacks.
It's interesting that someone can be a hundred years old and, and be sexually active. It's interesting. Also I read that a lot of younger people take it, because of if they're drinking and drugging then they can't perform. So they take that. But I think something's pretty fucked up if you have teenagers that can't get an erection because of the drugs they're taking. But that's drugs I mean, we're such a drug culture.
Do you ever get back to Tulsa?
I do go back, I haven't been back in a while. But I do go back and I still have some friends there. It hasn't changed that much. I would like to do a film there some time. I don't know, I go back and forth about whether or not to do a film there, but at some point I think I will.
When you were there, were there a lot of cowboys?
Yeah, it's Oklahoma man, there's a lot of cowboys.
But dancing cowboys?
Dancing cowboys?
I just interviewed somebody recently and he said that the cowboys all dance. They go out there like it's Footloose.
Well they do that, yeah. I didn't see that but probably. Pretty funny. You mean like line dancing or just like dancing?
Disco dancing cowboys.
Disco's back, ha?
Did you ever run into any mean cowboys out there?
Oh, yeah. Plenty. Back in the 60s cowboys didn't like the long hair at all. Now they all have long hair. There was a period there - we got in a few fights down there sure. But when I go back to Oklahoma it doesn't seem like so much has changed. I'm not sure that so much does change. I think it just kind of keeps repeating itself. Is this for this sex magazine?
It covers sex.
I saw the magazine. I've never really been so interested in pornography. It's never been something I was so interested in. I really don't ever watch it. I always find older pornography more interesting. Everything now is so over-lit and you see too much, every little pimple and it's just not so interesting to me at all. But the older stuff is much more interesting I think.
Having said that somebody has approached me about making a pornographic movie. As an artist. He has this project in mind where he's going to ask a number of artists to do a pornographic film. It's very interesting. I would do that. I've been talking to him about it. He's raising the money now. I guess they don't want to sell them in the porno shop. I don't know how interesting it is for the people who buy pornography, that are looking for a specific thing. But anyway I was thinking about it today what I would do. I've got some ideas.
Yeah, like what?
Well, I'm not sure yet I haven't done it.
Better yet, who would you like to cast in it?
I think that's the question. I think that would tell everything, right? Who you cast.
You think you can get Bijou Phillips?
I'm not going to answer that.
You think I'm too fat to be in your porno?
Well, I haven't decided what I want to do yet, how to attack it. It would be different I think.
If you have a place for an overweight small dicked man -
You're the guy, right?
I just saw one this chick grab two greasy filthy disgusting wrenches and stick them both in her ass and just starts prying them a part until it's good and stretched and then takes them out and then fists her ass.
I don't find it so interesting. I don't find it erotic at all.
It's fairly impressive though.
Well if one is impressed by that yeah, I guess. The bizarre and the grotesque have never really been my thing. What's the TV show? With Johnny Knoxville? Jackass? What you're talking about it's just what one can do to yourself. There's a big fascination with that. But it doesn't really go anywhere. I mean that's it. I t doesn't really go anywhere. What more can I do? I can jump off the roof and land on my head and crack my skull and "Wow." Skateboarding has really gotten that way too.
What attracted you to skateboarding?
I wanted to do something that wasn't about me. I wanted to do something that was about contemporary teenagers, contemporary stuff that had nothing to do with me. And, this goes back into the late seventies and I'd say the late 80s. I thought that skateboarders were the most interesting. Back then everybody hated skateboarders. They were thought of like they were Hell's Angels. All the adults were afraid of them, the cops hated them. All because they had freedom and they couldn't be controlled. They could go anywhere they wanted to do, it didn't take any money and they had this freedom that adults were intimidated by. And visually they were the most interesting and skateboarders back then were like punk rockers, they came from fucked up families.
Skateboarding saved their lives. It's a social phenomenon that if it wouldn't have been for skateboarding they would have killed themselves or be put in the penitentiary or something would have happened. But they had this outlet in skateboarding and so they were the most interesting. I decided I wanted to do a film about skateboarding and then it turned into hanging out with skateboarders. Then hanging out with them I got the idea for KIDS, from real people.
When was the last time you did drugs?
Five years ago. Heroine. I haven't done anything for five years. I don't do anything. I just had to stop, I wanted to survive. I take care of myself, I make sure I don't do anything.
Was there a gap between that last time and the time previous or was it steady up until then?
There'd been points where I tried to stop and I stopped for a while. But I work at not doing that. I don't do that. I want to make films, I want to work. I'm healthy, I'm happy. I went to rehab. I went to a chronic relapser's rehab. Same one Aerosmith went to. Steve Tyler went there. I've been to three rehabs. This was my third rehab. I went to rehab in '84, in about '89, and then I went to rehab five years ago November. I guess I just finally had had enough you know. Gone about as low as I could go.
Most everybody I know is dead. I just figured I couldn't die, I was one of those guys who couldn't die. And I didn't want to be one of these other guys out there, walking around talking to himself or pushing a shopping cart and be like eighty years old and just be filthy black and just couldn't die and be miserable. And all you want to do is die. All those guys want to do is die and they can't die. And I saw that as my fate. It was going to be me out there. And I couldn't do it, I'd just be out there in misery. Plus I got wonderful children. There was a lot of motivation. I have a lot of gratitude, I'm really a lucky guy to still be here.
How did you end up at rehab that time was it a conscious thing, did somebody drag your ass in there?
Before someone dragged me, I was going to shoot myself. It was just fucked. I had a couple of friends left that got me out.
So now, five years later-
Five years later I feel great and I just want see how many movies I can make.
Do you look at certain things and have an urge or-
No, no the compulsion's gone. The compulsion's lifted. But I work at it. I think about it everyday. I wake in the morning and I think about - I'm not going to do that. I work at it, you know, there's things I do. I'll do whatever I have to do. I mean you got to want it. It's totally a personal thing. You have to want it for yourself, and you'll find out how to do it if you really want it, you'll figure it out. It won't happen unless you really want it to happen. It really won't happen.
Ten years ago you look in the mirror, what do you see?
Ten ears ago, that's when I made KIDS and I was driven to make that film. I really had a mission, a purpose to make this film and to try to make a film that I felt hadn't been made before. A serious film about teenagers, that they could see and say, "Gee, you know, this feels right. Maybe it's not me but it feels right. It's honest and it's not bullshit." And that's what I wanted to do and I was able to do that.
I think today that that I still have a lot to say a lot to do. If I make two films in a row now and then I just made the film Ken Park which was really an important film for me. It was really the reason why I started making film, it was going to be my first film. Then KIDS was my first film, and then Ken Park was going to be my second film. It's taken all these years to get it made and we're still struggling to get it out in this country. It's about family; it's about parents and children. It's just as much about the parents as it is the children. So today I'm going to make a couple of films and then I have another film to make. If people say, "What can you do next?" I say, "I have other things to do." But I think I'm happier today. I'm very happy. I'm not sure I was very happy before, but I'm happy now.
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